Stand by Our Woman

Stand by Hillary...our 'only' hope "for real."

Obama, or move to Canada.

Hi Byron,

Obama's pastor has formally been recognized by the Unitarians nationally for being on the forefront of GLBT rights. He also started one of the first HIV/AIDS support groups in South Side Chicago and is an outspoken advocate of human rights. Obama isn't just more electable, he's the hope for a new start for all of us.

Not one HRC supporter has ever been able to tell me anything aside from her gender or her husband that makes them vote for her. They just . . . want to. She supports the war, but she is Hillary! She supports Bush, but hey, she is Hillary! She has no chance of winning in November, but hey, it's Hillary! She lies about sniper fire, but at least she is Hillary! She claims experience when she has none, but it's ok because she is Hillary! She has not had a real full-time job since I was in diapers, but the important thing is she is Hillary! She is completely subservient to every political, corporate and special interest group out there, but we trust her because she is Hillary!

One. Just one. I am waiting for one single reason to vote for her, and getting zilch. At least Obama has the ability to say he is outside the beltway and mean it, can talk to foreigners without the marines backing him up and has a good enough BS detector to tell the difference between a Bush lie and a real reason to start a war.

We need a woman president, badly, but more importantly we need a GOOD president. if the first woman in the white house is a massive disaster, the next woman in the while house will be a long time coming.

Hi Dave,

I don't blame you if you don't like Hillary's style. Most of us are mad about the war, too. But Obama has a 3 year resume filled with issues he wouldn't vote for (over 130 present votes) he doesn't vote on welfare and poverty, abortion or women's issues so it is pretty easy for him to avoid offending people.

Obama is certainly not above fibbing with the best of politicians,he is just much much better at lying then even Bill Clinton!

If you care about children who don't have life saving health care you should vote for Hillary.

Obama says he will get health care for children but Hillary has already delivered health care to 6 million children.

These 6 million children matter more than motivational speeches.

Maybe Hillary is irritating sometimes. Sometimes you have to offend people to get stuff done.

I agree - it's Hillary for me!

She's strong, smart, works hard, gets things done and has spent the last 15 years beating those who have tried any means to destroy her. And she looks good to - a true DIVA!

Hillary's accomplishments are exaggerated, including the health care comment. Obama better at lying? Source please! Obama's record in Illinois is not just noise, it is accomplishment. Clinton is in bed with corporate America and her irritation factor speaks more than just about style, it has to do with character and integrity. She is about the same old shit. We need people that can go beyond politics as usual. Her unapologetic support for war funding is atrocious and many kids are paying dearly for her just not getting it, or being bought out. She's an entitlement candidate and we don't need someone who feels they need to falsely assassinate the character of someone in order to win. She's the female Karl Rove and I am fed up with that mind set!

"And I truly believe she cares a helluva lot more about my gay ass than any eloquent black man who gives good speech"

So tell me why bringing race into your argument is anything but repugnant?

So the truth comes out. People are voting based on a single personal issue. Obama will protect gays AND woman no differently than Clinton. How about thinking a little more globally. Hillary will protect big business first and foremost. She is a clique candidate, not an embracing one.

I wonder how the author could ever know that Hillary cares more about his ass than any eloquent black man? What an odd thing to say. It's hard to read that as anything but obnoxious. And I'm sure there are plenty of eloquent black men, by the way, who care more about gay rights than Hillary ever will.

After 7 1/2 years, people are still looking for more of the same, politics as usual? Clinton's record is exaggerated, from healthcare to experience. Obama's legislative accomplishments in Illinois are impressive. Obama, better at lying? Sources please! If you want someone who is willing to stoop to deceit and outright slander to criticize an opponent in her own party, rather than take the high road, a candidate that is stumping for McCain and dare I mention her unapologetic support for Iraqi War funding. She plain doesn't get it, and is either bought out by corporate cronies or a military hawk, either scenario should be scary. So it's okay to send more people off to die in a fake war, just so we nominate someone who fits into some symbolic need? Get over it, and start voting for someone who might be able to undo the corruption, the greed and the arrogance of the past 25 + years, since Reagan. Hillary has shown a duplicitous side that displays a character flaw I don't find acceptable at this time in history. This should be of concern to anyone.

I would love to support a woman, any woman running for President...except that woman. Did you hear about her backers "warning" Nancy Pelosi (who has done far more for gay rights than Clinton ever will) that she should retract her statements about how superdelegates should do what the voters want. How disrespectful! She is neutral in the race thusfar but I hope she endorses Obama over Clinton to spite her. I'm sorry, but the Clintons aren't entitled to the White House and it's about time they figured that out.

Tony,

I can see why hope is so important to you. But do you seriously think that there is a politician on this earth that doesn�t lie or mislead?

It sounds like you think Obama is somehow incapable of lying and I think I must be misunderstanding you. If not, I can see why a campaign of hope is so important to you.

It is hard to say all that Obama has lied about and I really think he is a pretty good guy, he is my second choice for President. We may never know anything about him if he continues to get a free pass from the media (you can check out the 91% positive stories for Obama and 50% positive stories for Clinton on CBS.)

You can check out all of this stuff on the Internet because you aren�t going to find much about it on the news:

Obama claimed to have a 5 hour relationship with Rezko..

But actually�

Obama was off on his 5 hour relationship estimate by 20 years

Obama accepted a lot of help and cash from Rezko, etc.

Obama claims that he is above special interests but that isn't true

Rezko won a massive bid with Obama�s help,

It seems like you think that the Obama campaign is moral and the Clinton campaign is not. Obama�s appeal is lost on me and I sincerely want to hear what it is about Obama�s resume that will make him a good president.

P.S. I�m not being sarcastic at all, I hope to learn something new from this discussion.

Dear Tara; I never claimed that Obama is perfect, in fact he is far from it. In all honesty, Kucinich is my ideal choice for President and he is about as clean as they come, for a politician. I also wish to state that I have zero problem with a woman president. I can list about six or so scrappy woman who, if they were running, I would vote for, in a heartbeat, even over Obama, but Clinton is not on that list. Being tough is one thing, but being selfish as opposed to selfless is another, and that's what Clinton is about; her personal ambition and legacy. We should expect more from our politicians than the crap coming from the Clinton campaign, and Bill is just being a blowhard. I'll do some research on Rezko, but if that's what you got, I can make a laundry list of the Clintons. I don't want to fight. You seem to be very reasonable and I admire the spunk of the diehard Clinton supporters, but Hillary has a conservative streak that just reaks of more of the same politics at a time when we need radical changes and that might only happen with someone less entrenched. The Clinton and Bush dynasties need to go (IMHO) Have a great day Tara!

'Hilary Clinton ready to lie on day one'

Now that Hillary Clinton has been

nailed in an outright fabrication of her role in Bosnia, it is time to remind ourselves of another, even more galling fantasy that Hillary tried to sell the voters.

After 9/11, Hillary had a problem. New Yorkers were desperately focused on their own needs for protection and they were saddled with a Senator who was not one of them -- an Arkansasn or was it a Chicagoan?

Interviewed on the "Today" show one week after 9/11, she spun an elaborate yarn. The kindest thing we could say was that it was a fantasy. Or a fabrication.

She said that Chelsea was jogging around the World Trade Center on 9/11 and happened to duck into a coffee shop when the airplanes hit. She said that this move saved Chelsea's life. But Chelsea told Talk magazine that she was in a friend's apartment four miles from ground zero when the first plane hit. Her friend called her, waking her up, and told her to turn on the TV. On television, she saw the second plane hit, disproving Hillary's claim that "she heard the plane hit. She heard it. She did."

So why did Hillary make up the story about Chelsea? Most likely to was because her co-senator (and implicit rival for the voter's affection), a real New Yorker Chuck Schumer spoke of his daughter, who attended Stuyvesant High School (Dick's alma mater) located next to the TRade Center, being at real risk on 9/11. Hillary needed to make herself part of the scene.

She invented the entire story on national television, the "Today" show, and didn't blink an eye.

Her fabrication on the "Today" show was no unique foray. It is her standard M.O.. It gives us pause in evaluating all of her stories and calls into question her entire credibility.

I guess you forgot the part where Bill got elected by making promises to gays and lesbians, and then as soon as he was in office he broke every single promise and then some. I guess you also missed that Hillary belongs to an evangelical church and is affiliated with typical anti-gay bible-thumping preachers.

What gays are you assuming you speak for? Stand by Hillary all you want, but remember that she stood by Bill when he signed the Defense of Marriage Act. Awesome. Honestly, as a politician Hillary is fine--I don't mind her, and my mom thinks she's great--but every queer I know is totally for Obama. I have no idea how much either is ultimately going to do for my lesbian ass, as you eloquently put it, but I have greater faith in what Obama can do for the other 300,000,000 asses in this country.

I think the gays Mr. Beck was referring to are white ones. Apparently us queer people of color among queers of non-color need to rely on a great white hope, not real people & their policies. Apparently LGBTQ folks are supposed to overlook a canidate whose partner (and yes they are not the same people, but she did stand by him) decided inequality is okay. The gays Mr. Beck was speaking for & to are privileged, white gays who are easily able to overlook how much of a struggle it must be for Mr.Obama to get up every morning needing more security than any other canidate, being called the n-word behind his back (or halfrican by FOX news), being compared to Hitler & considered possibly the anti-christ -all because he happens to be a canidate who is Black. Mrs. Clinton's struggle is tough, but her struggle is not any greater than her deomcratic opponent.

This eloquent Black woman will not vote because I need a white hope, a Black hope, a testicle hope, a uterus hope or any other idea of seperation that keeps us all from uniting. Instead I'll vote with as much courage & faith in unity as I see reflected in the canidate I choose.

Tony,

I still didn't hear why you believe in Obama and I do want to learn from you. I like you and I don't want to fight either.

I think you are probably offended by Hillary's polarizing tactics that are actually the radical stuff you are asking for.

As a student of Saul Alinsky she wrote her thesis on these concepts:

Rule 1: Power is not only what you have, but what an opponent thinks you have. If your organization is small, hide your numbers in the dark and raise a din that will make everyone think you have many more people than you do.

Rule 2: Never go outside the experience of your people.

The result is confusion, fear, and retreat.

Rule 3: Whenever possible, go outside the experience of an opponent. Here you want to cause confusion, fear, and retreat.

Rule 4: Make opponents live up to their own book of rules. “You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.”

Rule 5: Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. It’s hard to counterattack ridicule, and it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage.

Rule 6: A good tactic is one your people enjoy. “If your people aren’t having a ball doing it, there is something very wrong with the tactic.”

Rule 7: A tactic that drags on for too long becomes a drag. Commitment may become ritualistic as people turn to other issues.

Rule 8: Keep the pressure on. Use different tactics and actions and use all events of the period for your purpose. “The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this that will cause the opposition to react to your advantage.”

Rule 9: The threat is more terrifying than the thing itself. When Alinsky leaked word that large numbers of poor people were going to tie up the washrooms of O’Hare Airport, Chicago city authorities quickly agreed to act on a longstanding commitment to a ghetto organization. They imagined the mayhem as thousands of passengers poured off airplanes to discover every washroom occupied. Then they imagined the international embarrassment and the damage to the city’s reputation.

Rule 10: The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative. Avoid being trapped by an opponent or an interviewer who says, “Okay, what would you do?”

Rule 11: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, polarize it. Don’t try to attack abstract corporations or bureaucracies. Identify a responsible individual. Ignore attempts to shift or spread the blame.

Although Obama says he is above all of the Saul Alinsky tactics, I really do not think this is true.

The reality is both Democratic candidates hold virtually identical positions on LGBTQ issues, so our community's decisions will be based on broader concerns.

I will be voting for Barack Obama because he had the integrity to stand in Martin Luther King's own pulpit and speak about homophobia. Right there, he taught me what I needed to know, as a gay man, about the content of his character.

Hmmmm Tara. I like you too, and that list is interesting if used properly against an OPPONENT. Our eyes are off the ball. McCain, I believe, is the opponent, not Obama. :) I prefer Sun Tsu's, "The Art of War" when it comes to strategy. Okay, to be realistic, Obama and Clinton are not miles apart in some of their major platform issues. However, Obama is less likely to be trigger happy (shoot first, then listen) than Clinton, who is so trying to prove she can handle that 3 am call (which actually are handled by concensus, not the President alone) and, like Bill, was desperate to show that he can be a world bully just like the Republicans. We need a different, I hate to say it; paradigm. Obama, on the world's stage seems like he could negotiate problems quite well, a dirty word in the Bush dictionary. Obama is less invested in BIG business and Hillary owes some of these donors big time. I'll get back to you with other issues later... ;)

Hi Tony,

I think the Saul Alinsky tactics are evil to some and not to others. As I said, Hillary wrote her thesis on Alinsky. Obama worked as a community organizer for Saul Alinskys organization for about 3 years as I remember. This is why I really don't believe Obama is above it all. I think his campaign is just better at it (he hired people who used to work for the Clintons-and they know everything about the art of war.)

Thanks for the welcoming comments, Tony. I think you are intelligent and I will enjoy learning more about your views.

P.S. For those of you who have outed me-I am the nerdy straight girl of the discussion board. I am sorry if I have intruded in anyway.

Thanks Tara. Maybe I'll write you in for President. ;)

I'm difficult to type; I'm the progressive, straight, Vietnam airborne infantry combat vet, overworked environmentalist, distance running fool as starters.

Tony,

OK, I'll be the next president and you can be my Vice President.

What a strange coincidence. I'm progressive,straight,Desert Shield Airborne, environmentalist,distance runner whose knees are shot from too many jumps.

WOW! That IS strange, in a good way.

Tony,

I'm not voting for Hillary because she is a woman. But as an Airborne female I do know how difficult it is to get anything done without getting rude about it. I could barely take the

sexism for 3 years and how Hillary gets up day after day to eat some more s____ from the media amazes me.

When I was deciding who I would vote for I read a 'negative' biography about Hillary's conservative past. I think it did shed some light on her motivations no matter how selfish they appear to be..

This was Hillary's motto as a teenager...

"Do all the good you can. By all the means you can. In all the ways you can. In all the places you can. At all the times you can. To all the people you can. As long as ever you can"

- John Wesley

Anyway, I have no doubt that Hillary's heart is in the right place.

Tara;

I totally respect your viewpoint and I can only imagine what it must have been like in an airborne unit as a female. I understand where you are coming from even if I may part ways when it comes to a candidate of preference. BTW, welcome home sister! :)

I would also just like to echo the point that "the media clusterfuck du jour over past homophobic tirades from Obama�s longtime preacher," represents a total falsehood. Rev. Wright has (unlike may preachers in predominately black churches) has a good track in supporting his queer congregants.

I agree. The entire Wright issue has been overblown and taken out of context. Hillary's pastor from her previous church completely back's Rev, Wright. I think the Wright comments were dragged up by Sean Hannity, of all people.

Thank you Tony,

Even if I am kind of a feminist, and an avid recycler, I think womens issues and every other issue is totally irrelevant in 8 years. Our next president had better follow through with their energy/environmental plan or all of our little agendas really do not matter.

Truly Tara!

It's been a pleasure "speaking" with you. Maybe, I'll see an airborne Tara in town on a serendipidous day.

I want to see Tony and Tara hook up! Imagine what they could accomplish together.

Thanks. It would have to be platonic, and I count more women among my friends than dudes. Synergy is awesome. I respect people with conviction, even those for whom I disagree. I can be in a redneck bar one day and mingle with Portland lefties the next. It's all about being honest!

I had no idea that getting ganged up on by the Obama camp could be so fun. With any luck I will blog Tony over the head again soon. If I wasn't already smitten with the most wonderful man on earth, I am sure Tony would be my cup of green tea.

Likewise, having sparring with one of the Clinton camporees has also been rewarding fun. Your guy is obviously lucky Tara. I am, as well, fortunately with a good woman. Nonetheless, green tea is healthy and you may blog this fiercly Independent dude over the head anytime. Dare I say, we can even be cyber or actual friends? Have a great week end.

File this one under "Love in the Time of Cholera."

As much as I have enjoyed this "Love in the Time of Cholera"-B movie script, it isn't happening. For you undecided and closeted Hillary voters; Bill Clinton will come to our charming Little Beirut tomorrow. Keep a look out for events at Bipartisan Cafe over the next 6 weeks as well.

P.S. Tony, I did go soft on Obama's fibs, as this saga continues I am sure you will get a better picture of my concerns about him. He is the real 'entitled' candidate here with the Oprah Book Club fans and the media love affair. -It has been fun, Airborne.

I have also enjoyed this. The media tends to go back and forth with candidates, depending on where they think they stand. However, if anyone has gotten a pass, it's been McCain, the true media darling. Many of us Obama supporters are not the swooning Oprah book club fans. I'm not sure about his fibs, but most of what I've read, have been mis-stated. Nonetheless, you carry on Tara. My intention is not to convert you, but to have a mature discussion, and I appreciate the opportunity. I am guessing, you were with the 82nd or 101st Airborne? I was with the 173rd Airborne Brigade (Sep.)

No, the media does not go back and forth on the candidates -it has consistently given Obama a 30% advantage. If having a mature discussion is your only agenda I welcome you to a debate at the Bipartisan Cafe. Email the owner of the cafe and let him know that you will be interested in representing the Obama camp in this upcoming event.

P.S. I went to jump school in Ft. Benning and served in a detachment of the 82nd Airborne in Europe.

Tara; If you knew me, you'd know I don't come with agendas. Obviously, I want to correct some misconceptions spread by many, about Obama because I find him a more suitable nominee, but that's it. My life is way too complex and busy, with a teenage daughter, SO, day job, evening PSU teaching job and consulting in my spare time, for me to waste my time with hidden agendas. I've earned my bullshit antennae in 'Nam and have never learned to play games. That said, I can see that you are, as well, a driven, committed person who I can admire. I e-mailed the cafe, but meetings and the like have never been my style. I get involved in very localized organizations with the time I have available, and have more than paid my dues in this respect. Usually, with all my jobs, running, and cooking dinner for my family, house projects and the like, all I have left is a short quality family time, then it's off to bed to start all over again. So do what you know in your heart is right for you. This should not be about pissing contest between Clinton and Obama camps, but how to disengage from the politics that have put us where we are today - in a big fucking mess! [Ft. Benning trained here, as well ;)]

H. Clinton (like her hubby who was gettin' blow jobs from a 19 year old female intern--that would have got the rest of us fired or in some sort of EEO complaint, and where were the screetching feminists?) is against same-sex marriage and homo's in the military. Those two issues should be the biggest concerns of homo men and women today.

It's clear Byron and company like her because she is a, well, a woman 'gay guys' like. If Judy Garland was alive, she would be a shoe in.

What about the issues? Perhaps it's only about what is fabulous and/or campy. Shallow and superficial, to say the least.

Brad

Brad,

After all this time you are still angry about a BJ someone else got? I know.. there are never enough to go around.

Now let me address your question about the ‘screetching’ feminists and the ever -fascinating BJ. I know Bill was wrong. After $70 million was spent investigating the Clinton pseudo scandals- we have now uncovered the REAL truth: Bill was a horndog.

As for support of the GLBTQ community, all of the candidates are going to have to do better. Hillary and Obama both have high ratings with HRC. But no matter how you slice it, Obama was wrong to raise his children to listen to antisemitic homophobic hate speech. (There is no one else defending Byron Beck here -so I wanted to lend a hand from the diva demographic he loves so well.)

I don’t know why I am the only person here who understands that Obama is really just as full of crap as the next person. We can not afford to vote as a knee jerk reaction to all of the pain we are in with this current administration. I know we all like our candidates, but please do not be afraid to research before you vote. I am open to changing my mind if I hear a good enough argument and it is a good idea for the Obama camp to try to be flexible too. In a matter of months when the democratic war is over, we will have to stick with a democratic candidate. There is a whole lot of BS to go around in this election. I really hope you won’t vote on the “core bull shit crowd pandering values” that were so important in the last election.

P.S. Are you a McCain supporter?

Oh am I so hooked into this thread. Good points Tara. It is important to separate the facts from the BS and not vote based on pandering and rhetoric. I like your spirit and enthusiasm, but I still find that what you are saying as much pertains to Hillary as Barack. I look at issues and a feeling of integrity in a candidate. I can not state again that neither candidate is flawless and I'm not even sure that's possible. Also, with all the infighting,this has cut into hearing about about each person's more detailed plans for the economy, the environment, healthcare, the middle east to name a few issues. What I also want to hear is an hones assessment of what each person can do after the honeymoon wears off and they now have to pay back their supporters. I'm talking both candidates here Tara. I see where you are coming from, even if we are not in agreement, but I am not entrenched nor a Pollyanna in my belief that Obama is some saint and the same goes for Clinton.

I am in total agreement with Bill's BJ. He's a philanderer and that's between him and Hillary. However, some feminists, at first, gave him a pass, but many later realized him for whom he is, but none of this justified the impeachment hearings. If anyone deserves impeachment, it's the two bastards in power now! I'm outta here. Have fun with Hillary's visit Tara.

Tony,

You are hooked into this because you aren’t really sure about Obama either. If you want to attend an event at Bipartisan, call Pete because his email is not working. He is looking for people from all camps to be part of a discussion.

BTW-If Brad is really a McCain guy, I am sure Pete would like to hear from him, too.

Tara; I love your persistence and drive. While I have problems with some of Obama's views, and neither candidates health care plans are fully acceptable, Obama is still closer in line with my views. Clinton worries me, with her snooty support of McCain's qualifications over Obama's, her DC business as usual approach and the disinformation and negatative attacks directed to Obama. But I digress. I'm all for both of them to keep going until a true winner emerges. I hear Bill had a decent talk yesterday.

I think the persistence is something I have in common with you. Would you like me to send more information to you? If so, where?

I think we have exhausted our turns on this thread, and we could go on ad nauseaum.

Tara & Tony: Just give me the go-ahead and I'll share your email addresses with the other. Thanks for the kumbaya debate!

Fine with me. Tara is cool. I'm also exhausted and will give the readers a break.

Wow. A shocking blanket statement to make about all/any eloquent black men. Like you know about any black eloquent men. I cant even refer to the political discussion you're making as it has lost all of its merit when statements like this are made.