Sam Rivers

INTERVIEW
GOOD SAM
At 77, free jazz pioneer Sam Rivers remains an elemental force.

by BILL SMITH
243-2122

Check Sam Rivers' résumé: He's played with Miles Davis, Cecil Taylor and Dizzy Gillespie. He pioneered New York's "loft" scene, which yielded the most bountiful harvests of the '70s avant garde. And at 77, this saxophone legend still has the energy and propulsive force of Multnomah Falls.

Rivers speaks like he plays: in frenetic, fluid streams of free-flowing thought, forging surprising links here, turning inward there, always expounding his singular vision of a musical life on the edge. Some highlights of a recent discussion:

On fame, or the lack thereof:

"You look on the Web, and all the information written about me says, 'Often ignored and grossly underrated.' Why is that? What'd I do to them? I don't necessarily feel ignored, but I am 'grossly underrated.' You go to Europe, especially Paris, and it's different. A friend of mine was telling me he was walking through Paris with a Sam Rivers T-shirt on. He said he couldn't get two blocks without someone asking excitedly where I was playing."

On the loft scene, circa 1970:

"In New York, I formed a group right away. I found this loft downtown, an old warehouse--100 by 35 feet with a balcony--owned by Robert De Niro's mother. We called it Studio Rivbea after my wife, Beatrice, and I.

"At first, it was a place to play new compositions, not really a performance space. But when the Newport Festival came to town in '68 and ignored all the new musicians, we decided to start our own festival."

This is now:

Rivers' fierce independence meant he missed the usual valedictory celebrations the jazz community bestows on elder statesmen for a long time. 1998 changed all that. One two-day recording project led to a pair of superb discs, 1999's Inspiration and last year's Culmination. Critical accolades ultimately built into twin Grammy nominations.

Rivers: "The Rivbea All-Stars recordings stemmed from those early loft ideas. We got together and rehearsed for two weeks, then went into Sweet Basil's in New York for a week, then recorded for two days."

On the industry:

"I hope I never have to deal with a record company again. I'm so happy the majors are dropping jazz. Musicians will now learn to produce and market their own music again.

"If I sell 5,000 CDs, it's fabulous. Ten thousand and I'm almost rich. For the big companies, that's a loss. Moral of the story: If it's something creative, it's something on a small label. They're the future of jazz."

About the trio:

"My trio with Doug Matthews is one of the most unique groups in the history of jazz. I play soprano and tenor sax, flute and piano. We've got tunes for soprano, tenor and clarinet, for two pianos and bass. Such versatility! I'm not supposed to be going on about this, that's your job. I end up sounding like Muhammad Ali. But, please, if you can find a trio with this degree of expertise and versatility, for God's sakes, tell me and I can stop this."

On getting old:

"Our audiences in Orlando are all young people hip to the music. I don't know anyone over 30 down here. All the old folks are out on the golf course, I guess.

"I haven't got time for that."